[Prodev] Different Issues and Solutions

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Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:14:45 -0600


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I agree with John.  This is providing some really thought provoking ideas.





"Eichstadt, John (Law Library)" <john_eichstadt@itc.co.harris.tx.us>
Sent by: prodev-admin@aallnet.org
02/07/2003 09:39 AM
Please respond to prodev

 
        To:     "'prodev@aallnet.org'" <prodev@aallnet.org>
        cc: 
        Subject:        RE: [Prodev] Different Issues and Solutions


I think Lorraine makes a good point.   I don't think the Pro-Se topic  is 
a
"one size fits all issue."   In addition,  for many of us,  I believe it 
is
a fluid situation subject to change.   As a result I have appreciated
everyone's comments/ideas even if I can't implement them now or don't need
to implement them now,  because further down the line I may be able to or
need to implement them.

John Eichstadt,  Harris County Law Library,  Houston, Texas

                 -----Original Message-----
                 From:           Lester, Lorraine 
[SMTP:LLESTER@libra.unm.edu]
                 Sent:           February 06, 2003 2:50 PM
                 To:             'prodev@aallnet.org'
                 Subject:                RE: [Prodev] Disruptive 
customers, security,
identification?

                 You know, it seems to me, what we're seeing here is the 
diversity of
our
                 libraries and their locations, their physical limits, and 
their
clientele.
                 Court libraries, State Law Libraries, and Public Academic 
Law
Libraries and
                 Private Academic Law Libraries, all have different issues 
and
solutions when
                 it comes to a lot of things.  Panic buttons and 
surveillance cameras
and
                 metal detectors would sure be unusual in a law school law 
library
that is
                 not located in an inner city locale, but experience has 
probably
shown that
                 some of these security things are vital to the well-being 
(survival)
or law
                 librarians and staff in other locations and situations. 
                 Lorraine Lester - University of New Mexico

                 -----Original Message-----
                 From: Mike.Miller@courts.state.md.us
                 [mailto:Mike.Miller@courts.state.md.us]
                 Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:29 PM
                 To: prodev@aallnet.org
                 Subject: Re: [Prodev] Disruptive customers, security,
identification?



                 My first foray into the discussion this week and hope I 
don't come
off
                 sounding negative, but, I really agree with Mary Rumsey 
about the ID
thing.
                 In addition, the discussion appears to be focusing the 
past two days
a
                 little too much on the negative implications of serving 
what turns
out to
                 be a very small percentage of "problem children" in this 
segment of
the
                 population. Everyone has  to deal with security issues, 
"street
people" and
                 the customer who thinks he's the chief justice.  As far 
as I'm
concerned we
                 (public law libraries) cannot afford to retard access to 
our "
inter-
                 sanctums". Most of these folks are taxpayers  who in many 
instances
are
                 paying directly or indirectly for our collections and 
salaries and
have a
                 right to expect assistance in finding their way into the 
courthouse
with a
                 modicum of success. These folks are our future, let's 
treat them
like
                 citizens who are to be admired for exhibiting the 
chutzpah to find
their
                 way to our front doors.

                 Mike Miller
                 Director, Maryland State Law Library
                 Robert C. Murphy Courts of Appeal Bldg.
                 361 Rowe Blvd.
                 Annapolis, MD 21401
                 (410) 260-1430


 

                                     Mary Rumsey

                                     <rumse006@tc.u       To: 
prodev@aallnet.org

                                     mn.edu>              cc:

                                     Sent by:             Subject:     Re: 
[Prodev]
                 Disruptive customers, security, identification? 
                                     prodev-admin@a

                                     allnet.org

 

 

                                     02/06/2003

                                     01:43 PM

                                     Please respond

                                     to prodev

 

 





                 As someone who has dealt with some difficult SRLs (and 
other
difficult
                 patrons), I sympathize with the problems.  However, I 
strongly
oppose
                 requiring patrons to show identification.  That can 
intimidate
people
                 and make them less likely to use the library.

                 Mary


                 --
                 Mary Rumsey
                 Foreign, Comparative & International Law Librarian
                 University of Minnesota Law School
                 229 19th Ave. S./Minneapolis, MN  55455
                 612-625-2905  fax 612-625-3478


                 _______________________________________________
                 prodev mailing list
                 prodev@aallnet.org
                 http://aallnet.org/mailman/listinfo/prodev




                 _______________________________________________
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                 http://aallnet.org/mailman/listinfo/prodev
                 _______________________________________________
                 prodev mailing list
                 prodev@aallnet.org
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
I agree with John. &nbsp;This is providing some really thought provoking ideas.<br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>&quot;Eichstadt, John (Law Library)&quot; &lt;john_eichstadt@itc.co.harris.tx.us&gt;</b></font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: prodev-admin@aallnet.org</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">02/07/2003 09:39 AM</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to prodev</font>
<br>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;'prodev@aallnet.org'&quot; &lt;prodev@aallnet.org&gt;</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;RE: [Prodev] Different Issues and Solutions</font></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">I think Lorraine makes a good point. &nbsp; I don't think the Pro-Se topic &nbsp;is a<br>
&quot;one size fits all issue.&quot; &nbsp; In addition, &nbsp;for many of us, &nbsp;I believe it is<br>
a fluid situation subject to change. &nbsp; As a result I have appreciated<br>
everyone's comments/ideas even if I can't implement them now or don't need<br>
to implement them now, &nbsp;because further down the line I may be able to or<br>
need to implement them.<br>
<br>
John Eichstadt, &nbsp;Harris County Law Library, &nbsp;Houston, Texas<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-----<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Lester, Lorraine [SMTP:LLESTER@libra.unm.edu]<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; February 06, 2003 2:50 PM<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 'prodev@aallnet.org'<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; RE: [Prodev] Disruptive customers, security,<br>
identification?<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; You know, it seems to me, what we're seeing here is the diversity of<br>
our<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; libraries and their locations, their physical limits, and their<br>
clientele.<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Court libraries, State Law Libraries, and Public Academic Law<br>
Libraries and<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Private Academic Law Libraries, all have different issues and<br>
solutions when<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; it comes to a lot of things. &nbsp;Panic buttons and surveillance cameras<br>
and<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; metal detectors would sure be unusual in a law school law library<br>
that is<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; not located in an inner city locale, but experience has probably<br>
shown that<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; some of these security things are vital to the well-being (survival)<br>
or law<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; librarians and staff in other locations and situations. &nbsp;<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Lorraine Lester - University of New Mexico<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-----<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: Mike.Miller@courts.state.md.us<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [mailto:Mike.Miller@courts.state.md.us]<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:29 PM<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: prodev@aallnet.org<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: Re: [Prodev] Disruptive customers, security,<br>
identification?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; My first foray into the discussion this week and hope I don't come<br>
off<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; sounding negative, but, I really agree with Mary Rumsey about the ID<br>
thing.<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; In addition, the discussion appears to be focusing the past two days<br>
a<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; little too much on the negative implications of serving &nbsp;what turns<br>
out to<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; be a very small percentage of &quot;problem children&quot; in this segment of<br>
the<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; population. Everyone has &nbsp;to deal with security issues, &quot;street<br>
people&quot; and<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the customer who thinks he's the chief justice. &nbsp;As far as I'm<br>
concerned we<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (public law libraries) cannot afford to retard access to our &quot;<br>
inter-<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; sanctums&quot;. Most of these folks are taxpayers &nbsp;who in many instances<br>
are<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; paying directly or indirectly for our collections and salaries and<br>
have a<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; right to expect assistance in finding their way into the courthouse<br>
with a<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; modicum of success. These folks are our future, let's treat them<br>
like<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; citizens who are to be admired for exhibiting the chutzpah to find<br>
their<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; way to our front doors.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Mike Miller<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Director, Maryland State Law Library<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Robert C. Murphy Courts of Appeal Bldg.<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 361 Rowe Blvd.<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Annapolis, MD 21401<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (410) 260-1430<br>
<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Mary Rumsey<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;rumse006@tc.u &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; prodev@aallnet.org<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mn.edu&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;cc:<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sent by: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; Re: [Prodev]<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Disruptive customers, security, identification? <br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; prodev-admin@a<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; allnet.org<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 02/06/2003<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 01:43 PM<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Please respond<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to prodev<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; As someone who has dealt with some difficult SRLs (and other<br>
difficult<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; patrons), I sympathize with the problems. &nbsp;However, I strongly<br>
oppose<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; requiring patrons to show identification. &nbsp;That can intimidate<br>
people<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and make them less likely to use the library.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Mary<br>
<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Mary Rumsey<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Foreign, Comparative &amp; International Law Librarian<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; University of Minnesota Law School<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 229 19th Ave. S./Minneapolis, MN &nbsp;55455<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 612-625-2905 &nbsp;fax 612-625-3478<br>
<br>
<br>
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